Re: mandatory possession in Chasma"o"cho

FFlores wrote:
>
> Grandsire, C.A. <grandsir@...> wrote:
>
> [snipped info]
> > NOTE 2: When used with an adjective that follows the noun, the adjective
> > must also carry the same possessive suffix as the noun, as a kind of
> > "agreement in possession". So 'my woodlike ear' (silly example, but I
> > can't find another adjective right now) is:
> > 'hec roesze"u"thac' /h'Ek ROjs'2T@k/ or
> > 'hetarc roesze"u"thutarc' /het'aRk ROjs'2T@t@Rk/
>
> This makes a lot of sense, since there's a universal about that
> (I think, adjectives following nouns take the noun's inflections,
> or something to that effect).
        In fact, this kind of agreement appears only with the madatorily
possessed nouns. With other nouns, the group noun+adjective is taken as
a whole and affixes are put at the ends of it, so that 'my strong tree'
would be:

'fyong ptasze"u"thc' /Pj'Ong ptas'9Tk/ (and not *'fyongac ptasze"u"thc')
or
'fyang ptasa"e"vitarc' /Pj'ang ptas'aiB@t@Rk/
(I've just realised I made a mistake: cluster -thc is perfectly possible
at the end of a word, and long forms complete construct states, so the
adjective must agree in construct state too).

 But can you use the short form for
> the noun and the long form for the adjective, to avoid having
> such long phrases? Or maybe some playing with the construct
> state (noun-const adjective-poss)...
>
        That is the good construction for not-mandatorily possessed nouns
followed by an adjective, when followed by a long form suffix (just see
my example). For mandatorily possessed nouns, the noun with long form
suffix is also considered construct, so the good example of 'my
wood-like ear' should be:

'hetarc roesa"e"vitarc' /het'aRk rOjs'ajB@t@Rk/

(never do three things at the same time :) , or you'll make mistakes
like that)

        The use of short forms or long forms is tricky enough, combining
problems of formality, grammar, meaning... so I don't think the use of
the short form for the noun and long form for the adjective would be
good (also, nouns with a short form are not considered construct, but a
long form asks for a construct state, so that would bring an unsolvable
problem). Anyway, long words are not that bad, and Chasma"o"cho isn't
that long anyway :) .

> Just my 2 centavos,
>
> --Pablo Flores
>   http://draseleq.conlang.org/pablo-david/
--
        Christophe Grandsire

        Philips Research Laboratories --  Building WB 145
        Prof. Holstlaan 4
        5656 AA Eindhoven
        The Netherlands

        Phone:  +31-40-27-45006
        E-mail: grandsir@natlab.research.philips.com